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Darian

What about Linux support?

44 posts in this topic

Hi,

i heard from your kickstarter project and I wish you good luck!

Just want to know, if there is any chance of supporting Linux (Server _and_ Client)? That would be great ;) I think, this genre doesnt exist on Linux yet. Maybe you could consider to use a multiplatform engine like Unigine, if you will not develope your own.

Best regards.

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Even if do not created a version for Linux and Mac OS, please do NOT use PunkBuster. Then there is a chance to play in WINE.

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more demand in Linux better chance for it happening! bring in some Linux supporters!

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I think, this genre doesnt exist on Linux yet.

I used to play Quake Enemy Territory on Linux which worked there very well.

I am +1 for asking Linux support.

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PB and other anticheats-

There might be a way around your standard aimbotter, through game mechanics. Something controlling your character in a human fashion, so if you move aim to fast twards a headshot for example, you will most likley miss. Or something like that. I really liked realistic stuff like that in games where for example if your running and jumping you cant airheadshot someone unless your balance is perfectly in sync with your characters bodys physical forces in motion. so if your running and jumping over something, your body weight, physics, force etc play a factor. You could technicly possibly make a airheadshot if your perfectly aware of the physics in motion from your body and gear. And ofcourse that there all lined up to make a shot like that. I know it all seems way to complex, and i have no idea how relevant this is to accually implementation with todays technologi or theroetical coding of such. But wouldnt it be awsome if you accually feelt like playing that character. Anyway back to my point, with such an advanced realm of physics all effecting your aim and stability, should in theory make using a bot very hard to be even viable as a tool for advantage gain over a human playing. Tho i realise that eventually a bot could catch up to some sort of mesurmenat to all these physic implementations, and learn how a character handles. I still think this is a win win both adding realism, and subsequently hindering the usefullness of any aimbotlike programs from beeing a usefull tool for advantage over non cheating players.

Another way i guess would be on a programming level wich i cant say anything cause of lack of knowlege, but the way bots these days seem to work mostly is that they are allowed access to the games used memory, modifing and injecting itself into it. Donno if there could be some way to fully protect the game through cryptographics or something. Anyway, the ppl botting usually dont give a ###### if there account is banned and they need to buy a new copy, they just enjoy ######ing with ppls limited gametime.Pb has never really worked tho sadly. Im guessing failing extremly complex physics making your character less robotic, some sort of extreme backbone into how the game communicates with itself and everything else. Perhaps some sort of layered cryptographic checksumming gateway, i have no idea, now im sleepy thought id spill my head before sleep. Some last words, this project is really interesting, and covers alot of the issues you find with realisticish games out there. Like if you get shot in the leg through and through, should you not atleast start limping or dragging your leg, or atleast move a little slower or not be able to run at any great distance, after a while when you loose enough blood and the adrenaline wheres off?. I think so. Ill just ramble a few more lines while im still awake. Vitals, such as adrenaline, focus, hearing,(like if someone emptys a clip right by your ear should you not be a bit hearing impaired for a while atleast, tho this is found in some games). Hand to hand combat, while there is no real cool way to implement this with accually using your hands to shadow controll your characters hands while using a keyboard and mouse, i sort of think it would be cool if you had some sort of sensor, and some lightweight gloves that would let you let go of your mouse and keyboard, put your hands up centerish to the screen, have some way to controll foward, back, strafe while having your hands in the air, and they acually do the hand to hand combat with your hands, like silent takeouts, punching a gun out of someones hands, kicking someone to put him off balance or fall down, or if you suspect someones comming behind you for a silent takeout, drop your mouse and keyboard, put your hands up try and turn enought to see where the grab or stab is comming from and block it, continue hand to hand untill you go back to keyboard and mouse control, presuming you survived. The hardest part would be stearing while using sensor+gloves, i donno any great way around that. maybe the sensor could pickup your heads pitch and jaw or ssomething. But that would really be cool!.

as for linux support, i always advocate crossplatform, and the use of opensource implementation, like opengl. Why? cause the code it dirived from is a community effort, ei, alot more ppl are responisble for it, and anyone can improve or critisize it right down to the last line of code, Honestly this is the better way forward, even tho its not evolved though direct econemy wich obviosly shows greater result at a faster rate, that always comes at a price, like limiting to to a narrow range of deployment. ei dx11 windows. Porting to playstation and xbox or wii, is another pain all in itself, or porting from it to pc. History has shown how severly bad impact it has had on games suffered.

An opensource backbone tho, thats something you could potentially put on any device, sortof. But yeah commercial graphical backbones wont allow for that kind of easy porting, sadly. i think iv rambled enough, ill try and keep my future posts more cohearant and ontopic for the forum section. i appoligize.

Take the game rage for example. alright im out.

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Linux support would be a dream! I barely use Windows, and when I do it's in a VM, safely segregated from the internet. You needn't worry too much about Windows support, I would think - by the time this game is reaching release, the only realistic version of Windows to use will be 7 - 8 is being ripped already for it's useless interface, it's a tablet OS, and XP is dying slowly but surely. The best way to do it would be using open cross-platform standards like OpenGL and OpenAL, this would minimize porting - heck, you could get it working on a Mac. Unfortunately the only real option on Xbox 360 is DirectX AFAIK (not a 360 dev) but offering both options would be a possibility!

I guess a large part depends on the engine(s) that are chosen - sadly, not a lot of them play very well on Linux. If you must use the bloated MS stuff, staying as close as possible to the Mono specs with an option for an OpenGL backend may work.

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If there was a good game to run natively in linux I might be motivated up update my aging desktop as long as I didn't have to play it in windows, all my gaming in recent years has been on the playstation but I used to be just as heavy a PC gamer and would still prefer to play games if possible there just for the flexibility.

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PB and other anticheats-

There might be a way around your standard aimbotter, through game mechanics. Something controlling your character in a human fashion, so if you move aim to fast twards a headshot for example, you will most likley miss. Or something like that.

Doesn't work if said cheater uses no-spread hacks as well... Like most aimbots in MW3 do.

Anyway back to my point, with such an advanced realm of physics all effecting your aim and stability, should in theory make using a bot very hard to be even viable as a tool for advantage gain over a human playing. Tho i realise that eventually a bot could catch up to some sort of mesurmenat [measurements?] to all these physic implementations, and learn how a character handles. I still think this is a win win both adding realism, and subsequently hindering the usefullness of any aimbotlike programs from beeing a usefull tool for advantage over non cheating players.
Another way i guess would be on a programming level wich i cant say anything cause of lack of knowlege, but the way bots these days seem to work mostly is that they are allowed access to the games used memory, modifing and injecting itself into it. Donno if there could be some way to fully protect the game through cryptographics or something.
Even if cryptographic was an effective technique, it'd be a heavy drain on your resources due to all the additional encryption and decryption required... And it wouldn't be particularly strong since most cryptographic tools rely on a known key or public/private key pair, which would be 'plaintext' anyway (otherwise it can't be used) and then it is just a matter of finding said key (pair) and you can decrypt the important aspects. So I'm afraid cryptography would only throw up another barrier just like PunkBuster would but in the end just be downright pointless.
as for linux support, i always advocate crossplatform, and the use of opensource implementation, like opengl. Why? cause the code it dirived from is a community effort, ei, alot more ppl are responisble for it, and anyone can improve or critisize it right down to the last line of code, Honestly this is the better way forward, even tho its not evolved though direct econemy wich obviosly shows greater result at a faster rate, that always comes at a price, like limiting to to a narrow range of deployment. ei dx11 windows. Porting to playstation and xbox or wii, is another pain all in itself, or porting from it to pc. History has shown how severly bad impact it has had on games suffered.

An opensource backbone tho, thats something you could potentially put on any device, sortof. But yeah commercial graphical backbones wont allow for that kind of easy porting, sadly. i think iv rambled enough, ill try and keep my future posts more cohearant and ontopic for the forum section. i appoligize.

Take the game rage for example. alright im out.

Open-source doesn't necessarily mean available for commercial usage (GPL for example could be a hindrance). Keep in mind that there is always the issue of all tools being different in usage and thus if Serellan's team is trained in DirectX programming, you need to decide whether it is worth the delay (money!) and potentially additional bugs that arise due to being relatively new to OpenGL. That is one of the reason a lot of companies prefer to stick to Windows because it costs time and money to train their employees to use Linux almost as efficiently as they use Windows (and why they are sticking to Windows XP instead of switching to Vista or 7). Not necessarily because it is better but because they don't think the benefits outweigh the costs of switching over.

In our case it also is worth pointing out that Xbox 360 uses DirectX as far as I am aware, while I don't know for PS3 (but I guess it uses OpenGL [Edit: Googled it and it seems to have OpenGL ES 2.0 as an option but the primary API is proprietary...]) and PC can do both but nvidia and AMD optimize their cards for DirectX and not so much for OpenGL. So depending on the plan using one or another could mean being able to deploy it faster on one platform thus a different platform also receives it quicker. [Edit: Seeing as for PS3 it is recommended to use the proprietary API, it seems for quicker deployment using DirectX for PC/x360 would be the favorable choice...]

P.S. Just giving feedback, definitely not trying to insult you ;)

As I said, most aimbots incorporate other hacks like wallhacks, no-spread hacks and such. So such a system ingame wouldn't hamper the hackers as much as you think.

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The only reason I maintain a windows computer is so I can feed my gaming habits.

+1 for Linux :)

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I want to be clear in why I haven't come out and said "YES LINUX, GIMME YOUR MONEY!" Is because my research and questions for the engine developers have not been clearly answered. There obviously is a demand, but it is hard in such a short timeframe to give a definitive answer when engine developers are not giving us clear answers.

Does that make sense? We could rush out and say "YEAH!", but we would rather be honest and unclear than fake and clear. Sorry.

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I want to be clear in why I haven't come out and said "YES LINUX, GIMME YOUR MONEY!" Is because my research and questions for the engine developers have not been clearly answered. There obviously is a demand, but it is hard in such a short timeframe to give a definitive answer when engine developers are not giving us clear answers.

Does that make sense? We could rush out and say "YEAH!", but we would rather be honest and unclear than fake and clear. Sorry.

It's actually pretty difficult without choosing an engine specifically for multi-platform compatibility! Something like Unigine, Unreal or even Torque 3D would provide a maximum amount of portability. Portability is very important right now as we are just reaching the next generation of consoles/computing devices - wouldn't it be great if you could choose a platform that would not only allow a possible port to other platforms like tablets, smartphones, Mac or consoles but also benefit from later efforts to port current-generation engines to next-generation devices? I'm pretty sure that will happen, especially with the more popular engines.

Obviously, there are other priorities too. If you are planning on preventing user modifications, embedding draconian DRM, monetizing with endless DLCs and micropayments and ignoring user's requests and ideas, Linux users will be the bane of your existence. This, however, doesn't seem to be the case - if you're willing to continue with the current level of open dialogue and go out of your way to support Linux users, they'll support you back. You know about the Humble Bundle, right? Look at the stats and see how much Linux users contribute when given the chance to enjoy a game and developer that share their ideals. Look at old (by industry standards) games that have been kept alive by Linux users modding them and enjoying them well past their glory days, like Quake 3 and Neverwinter Nights. There're even publishers, markets and distribution platforms for Linux games like LGP (Linux Game Publishing), Ubuntu Software Centre (Ubuntu Linux's 'app store') and Desura (Multi-platform steam-alike).

Besides, a strong commitment to Linux (if and when you can) will likely mean a deluge of interest from skilled, well-informed and intelligent contributors willing to see this project through, if only to satisfy their own want for a fun team-based current-generation Linux game :)

That said, take your time - ensure you can make a commitment before you make it. But if you do, it'll be a very positive decision as far as I'm concerned!

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Very happy this project made it.

Am a linux user, but I advertised this a lot even if it was not certain of a linux / mac version.

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Something like Unigine, Unreal or even Torque 3D would provide a maximum amount of portability.
Agree with Unigine (cost around $30k that pretty reasonably, support Linux and PS3 too!) but disagree with Unreal (cost too much, even much more than $200k, also doesn't have Linux support).
There're even publishers, markets and distribution platforms for Linux games like LGP (Linux Game Publishing), Ubuntu Software Centre (Ubuntu Linux's 'app store') and Desura (Multi-platform steam-alike).
And also Gameolith who make deb/rpm packages.
That said, take your time - ensure you can make a commitment before you make it. But if you do, it'll be a very positive decision as far as I'm concerned!
Totally agree! :)

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Huge Linux gamer who donated on that basis.

I hope you can get the questions on your engine cleared up soon.

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I want to be clear in why I haven't come out and said "YES LINUX, GIMME YOUR MONEY!" Is because my research and questions for the engine developers have not been clearly answered. There obviously is a demand, but it is hard in such a short timeframe to give a definitive answer when engine developers are not giving us clear answers.

Does that make sense? We could rush out and say "YEAH!", but we would rather be honest and unclear than fake and clear. Sorry.

It makes perfect sense, and is definitely what I'd rather hear, as a Linux-user (apart from "Linux support is go!" of course ;)). Don't rush anything, but do keep options open (cross-platform from the start is usually a lot easier than porting later).

I agree with all the comments before mine, and will just add that from an outsider's perspective, Unigine looks really interesting. I think the Wasteland 2 guys are considering it as one of the engines to use that has cross-platform support.

Anyway, I backed this at the $15 entry level because I believe it in and can play it on Windows if I have to, but if you ultimately release it for Linux (and Mac?) as well, I'll buy another copy at retail to give to a friend who wouldn't otherwise play it.

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Just as another follow up, I have been involved in PC, XB, PS, PSP projects, and have seen the requirements and challenges for bringing games from one platform to another, but not Mac or Linux, so we have had to rely on others to gather information, and thus the slow uptick on firm confirmation. As always, trying to be upfront why or why not decisions are being made.

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Just as another follow up, I have been involved in PC, XB, PS, PSP projects, and have seen the requirements and challenges for bringing games from one platform to another, but not Mac or Linux, so we have had to rely on others to gather information, and thus the slow uptick on firm confirmation. As always, trying to be upfront why or why not decisions are being made.

Love your honesty.

+1 for a Linux port myself.

Did you choose your engine yet ? Not many of them officially support Linux, even though with mac and PS3 ports, they can't be that far from a Linux port

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Not yet, soon. Chatting with eng devs more this week, now we have some negotiating power.

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While I don't use Linux myself I can see why it would be popular, but I would rather have a fully featured and stable game on one platform, than a half baked game on multiple platforms.

As a side note, an engine with 3D Vision support would be nice. Obviously not critical, but nice. Same with Physx. Borderlands 2 is doing some interesting things.

But obviously the core game comes first.

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